'Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs'

Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Samuel Andreyev, 26 Dec 11:05AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Wim Hoogewerf, 26 Dec 11:17AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Samuel Andreyev, 26 Dec 11:36AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Jim Druckenmiller, 27 Dec 03:07AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Andrew Moschou, 27 Dec 04:14AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Wim Hoogewerf, 27 Dec 09:30AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - grooveboy_jazz, 11 Oct 12:39AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Wim Hoogewerf, 11 Oct 07:31AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - nissim, 30 Dec 03:51PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Bob Zawalich, 28 Apr 08:12PM

Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Samuel Andreyev - 26 Dec 11:05AM
I'm engraving a score for six percussionists, and the composer wants special clefs depending on the number of instruments being used in a staff (see image). As I can't figure out how to edit/customize the available clefs in Sibelius, I'm copying and pasting the symbol I created for this clef at the start of each system. This is laborious, and I will have start all over when I make parts. Is there a way to automate this?

Thanks in advance.
Samuel Andreyev
www.trepex.org
Attachment clef.png (24K)
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 26 Dec 11:17AM
You can simply edit one of the less common clef symbols (like the treble clef with 8 or 15 attached) and replace with the symbol you seem to have already made.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Samuel Andreyev - 26 Dec 11:36AM
Of course! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks Wim.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Jim Druckenmiller - 27 Dec 03:07AM (edited 27 Dec 03:11AM)
> You can simply edit one of the less common clef symbols (like the treble clef with 8 or 15 attached) and replace with the symbol you seem to have already made.



Just out of curiosity, is there any other way to do this in Sibelius?

I mean, is it even possible to create one from scratch, or is this a very clever 'work-a-round' for a feature that doesn't really exist? ( Yet ? )


Also... (and I'm sorry if I'm being annoying here)...


If I did edit (over-write ?) and existing symbol, is that a 'Global' change that's present in 'EVERY' new document created from that day forward. or is it only based ('locally') within the document in which it was created?

Would there be a way to go back and undo your own edits via a restore defaults button or something similar?

and if not, is it possible to maybe copy a file from a system folder and have that act as a kind of 'work-a-round back-up' just in case you needed to go back to the original for some reason or another?


Thanks,

Jim







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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Andrew Moschou - 27 Dec 04:14AM
> Just out of curiosity, is there any other way to do this in Sibelius?
>
> I mean, is it even possible to create one from scratch, or is this a very clever 'work-a-round' for a feature that doesn't really exist? ( Yet ? )

It might be possible to do it another way, but clefs are very powerful and any other way would be harder to implement. It is a very simple and elegant solution.

> If I did edit (over-write ?) and existing symbol, is that a 'Global' change that's present in 'EVERY' new document created from that day forward. or is it only based ('locally') within the document in which it was created?

Such changes are present only in the score that the change was made in.

> Would there be a way to go back and undo your own edits via a restore defaults button or something similar?
>
> and if not, is it possible to maybe copy a file from a system folder and have that act as a kind of 'work-a-round back-up' just in case you needed to go back to the original for some reason or another?

Settings like symbols and engraving rules are stored within the score itself, so changing these settings affect the current score only. These settings can be transferred from one score to another by using house styles: export a house style from a score and then import it into another score. There are several default house styles that come with Sibelius. These have names similar to "Standard Opus (Times)". You can import one of these to reset a score's settings if needed. I suggest you read up on house styles in your Sibelius manual for more information.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 27 Dec 09:30AM
> Would there be a way to go back and undo your own edits via a restore defaults button or something similar?

Yes, you can undo after editing the symbol until ibelius says 'there's nothing to undo'

> and if not, is it possible to maybe copy a file from a system folder and have that act as a kind of 'work-a-round back-up' just in case you needed to go back to the original for some reason or another?

You can copy and paste back in the original clef symbol from any other score. Didn't check, but this will probably add the original symbol to your pannel so you can use it to bring the custom clef back to it's original.
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by grooveboy_jazz - 11 Oct 12:39AM
> I'm engraving a score for six percussionists, and the composer wants special clefs depending on the number of instruments being used in a staff (see image). As I can't figure out how to edit/customize the available clefs in Sibelius, I'm copying and pasting the symbol I created for this clef at the start of each system. This is laborious, and I will have start all over when I make parts. Is there a way to automate this?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Samuel Andreyev
> www.trepex.org

Hi guys

I can't seem to find how to edit a clef in Sib 7... Any thoughts?
Thanks!
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Wim Hoogewerf - 11 Oct 07:31AM
It's still the same method as described above. Go to Notation > Symbols, South-east arrow and edit one of the clef symbols.
--
MacOS 10.7.5
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by nissim - 30 Dec 03:51PM
I have a question that at least tangentially relates to Sam's. I have a graphic that I'm using as a clef, in such a way that the notes that it defines are the same as normal. (e.g. after this clef, a violin would still read as though in treble clef, or a cello in bass clef) Using Wim's technique, there's no problem with treble and bass clef instruments, since there are plenty of ottava clefs that don't change the placement of the notes on the staff. The viola is proving to be a real problem, though, since there is only one alto clef, with middle C as the middle line, and I can't replace it because most of the piece is in alto clef.

I don't care about playback, but I'd rather not have to transpose every note in order to get this to work on the page.

Is there some way to duplicate the native alto clef or reassign the middle line of one of the other clefs? Some other work-around?

(I'm using Sibelius 7)
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Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs
Posted by Bob Zawalich - 28 Apr 08:12PM (edited 28 Apr 10:05PM)
(It is now April 2019)

As far as I know there is no way to change the placement of notes for a given clef. So if you create an alternate clef symbol but want the placement to be different (as in the example given with the alto clef) you will need to transpose all the notes that use that clef.

Given that the notes will not sound correctly, if you want the notes to sound correctly, it may be a better choice to use a clef with the correct transposition, hide that clef, and manually add a symbol for the desired clef symbol at every location where that clef needs to appear.

It is easy to hide the clef if the desired clef sound like a treble clef - the null clef will work for that. If you want a clef that is positioned like a bass clef, it is easy to create new bass clef telling it to not draw on subsequent pages, but getting the first bar to not have a clef is tricky. I have attached one possible way to do that that does not require strange masking. If anyone has a better way to do this I would be interested to know how you are doing it. My way wastes 2 pages of the score that you have to pretend are not there, but otherwise I think it would work.


It would be useful to be able to create new clefs rather than having to go through this rather hacky mechanism. Even something like the way we can add custom articulations would be a start, as long as it provided a way to specify the placement of the notes on the staff.

--
Bob

An experienced user of Sibelius. Sib 1.2 - 2018.12, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit, 32 G RAM. Year 2019.
Free Resources: Notating Harp Music In Sibelius: http://www.bobzawalich.com/harp-notation-in-sibelius/
Get Saved Sibelius Version: http://www.bobzawalich.com/get-saved-sibelius-version-application/
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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Samuel Andreyev, 26 Dec 11:05AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Wim Hoogewerf, 26 Dec 11:17AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Samuel Andreyev, 26 Dec 11:36AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Jim Druckenmiller, 27 Dec 03:07AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Andrew Moschou, 27 Dec 04:14AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Wim Hoogewerf, 27 Dec 09:30AM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - grooveboy_jazz, 11 Oct 12:39AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Wim Hoogewerf, 11 Oct 07:31AM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - nissim, 30 Dec 03:51PM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: Customizing clefs - Bob Zawalich, 28 Apr 08:12PM