Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Roos, 04 Oct 02:50AM
     Are we all going out of business? Not really... - Gulic, 04 Oct 04:42AM
         Re: Are we all going out of business? Not reall... - Peter Roos, 04 Oct 04:32PM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Ian Cugley, 04 Oct 11:37AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Rob Tuley, 04 Oct 05:52PM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 05 Oct 02:13AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Roman Molino Dunn, 05 Oct 08:31AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 05 Oct 09:52AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 06 Oct 06:17AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Jody Hughes, 06 Oct 08:37AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 06 Oct 09:32AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Stephen Wrigley, 06 Oct 09:37PM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 07 Oct 04:00AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 07 Oct 03:43AM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Stephen Wrigley, 07 Oct 08:38AM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 07 Oct 05:17PM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Roos, 08 Oct 12:15AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 08 Oct 11:08AM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 08 Oct 04:38AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 15 Oct 02:40PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Stephen Wrigley, 15 Oct 11:10PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 16 Oct 09:25AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Phil Gaskill, 16 Oct 04:58PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Robert Enns, 16 Oct 09:09PM

Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Roos - 04 Oct 02:50AM
There you are:

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/09/virtual-composer-makes-beautiful-musicand-stirs-controversy.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

Forget about Sibelius features, and wish lists - this is it! We'll be taken over by machines!

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com

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Are we all going out of business? Not really...
Posted by Gulic - 04 Oct 04:42AM (edited 05 Oct 12:32AM)
I am also creating music using certain algorithm (don't worry - I won't promote what I wrote in any means). It's definitely not the one, which Professor David Cope is using.

It also is totally the opposite to Kelly Howell - the founder of Brain Sync (low waves music). She is using music, which stimulates slow wave brain activity, like Teta and Delta waves.

She claimed: "EEG studies conducted at Harvard Body Mind Medical School and UCLA concluded that our exclusive Brain Wave Audio Technology® prompts brain activity into extraordinary body-mind states."

First - there is no such organization - Harvard Body Mind Medical School; there is only the Mind/Body Medical Institute located in the same with city - Harvard - Boston and it has never been part of the Harvard Medical School.

Even if we will find an excuse for her that she forgot where she conducted her so "valuable" research and will call to the Harvard Medical School, the Mind/Body Medical Institute and UCLA for the studies Kelly Howell referred to - no surprise - you won't find any. Before us, they even never heard such name - Kelly Howell.

So, now you can imagine how good for people could be the Kelly's music business. Ask yourself - can dishonest individuals bring to people anything good on deeds? Maybe if lies are packaged into good words, they are not lies anymore, but truth?

She is using music, which, in particularly, causes the slow brain wave activity, like Theta and Delta waves. And please, pay attention that she also is using subliminal messages (according to her own claims).

She claims it helps with meditation, awakens the divine life force energy, activates Chakras, arises happiness, helps people access their higher intelligence and helps with personal transformation. Now I will explain to whom she transforms the listeners.

When Theta and Delta brain waves occur during the state of awareness - this is a sign of a disease, mental or other problems. Slow wave rhythms are found in a variety of developmental and degenerative disorders, in toxic and metabolic encephalopathy and in other neurological conditions, like cerebral infarct, contusion, local infection, brain tumor, epileptic foci, subdural hematoma, schizophrenia and the like.

But we found NO ONE among the scientists who would alert the public about the danger for mental health of the nation coming from music, which synchronizes brain waves with the low frequencies of the music plus damages that are coming from embedded into the music subliminal messages. It's hard to believe that nowadays science is all about money - for money everything can be "magically" turned into everything of the master’s wish.

It means, that the music, which causes Theta and Delta brain waves, does not help the meditation, spirituality, energy, happiness, intelligence,... It doesn't help at all; all it does is turning off a part of the brain and due to this the victim loses ability to distinguish dreams from reality and starts to feel/see/hear products of a sick imagination like they would be real. In other words, thanks to damages to the brain and embedded into Kelly's music subliminal messages, the victims, who listen this type of music, see illusions of achievement of higher states of intelligence/spirituality, they could see imaginary (but not real) Chakras, sounds, colors, entities, etc. or anything else which exist only in the world of dreams.

They believe their dreams are real and they want see these dreams/illusions again and again = they agreed to be fooled, but... but in the real world they are going down (they degrade) from the very beginning of this journey. Who among mentally sick people can realize that they are sick? None of them!!! That's why the victims of such music will continue buying it forever... because... because it ruins their consciousness and eventually their own brains and as the result - the body (health).

The victims very quickly come to the level, where they lose the ability to understand what is going on with them and want to live in illusions more than in reality. It works in the similar manner to drug addiction - people become addicted to mind-destructive information as soon and as strong as drug-addicts do to drugs.

Why the major media does not alarm about the targeted mass-degradation of the public? There are many reasons... but this analysis is not for this forum ...

Why am I writing about it? Because it’s time to go further than just waiting for emotional inspiration (or until the cows come home).

Composers have to choose the side:

1. Creating music, which improves brain functions and this effect can be measured by at least two independent scientific methods…

or

2. Generating music, which causes mental degradation in the manner of drugs (narcotics). The most advertised/promoted hot pop hits are often in this category...

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Re: Are we all going out of business? Not really...
Posted by Peter Roos - 04 Oct 04:32PM
>
> Composers have to choose the side:
>
> 1. Creating music, which improves brain functions and this effect can be measured by at least two independent scientific methods…
>
> or
>
> 2. Generating music, which causes mental degradation in the manner of drugs (narcotics).

I am going for the third option, which is World Domination.

You must listen to my music ... you must ... you must ... good ... and now you must obey me.


--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Ian Cugley - 04 Oct 11:37AM
Peter Roos said:

> Forget about Sibelius features, and wish lists - this is it! We'll be taken over by machines!
>

This is Mozart's dice game, played repeatedly by someone with far too much time on their hands.

These algorithms could easily be incorporated into Sibelius — like the Ideas in the Ideas hub, but with a set of rules for combining them. The main Feature Request would then be for a plug-in to tell which resulting 'compositions' were good enough to keep and which were not.

Come to think of it, I could do with a plug-in like that right now.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Rob Tuley - 04 Oct 05:52PM
> This is Mozart's dice game, played repeatedly by someone with far too much time on their hands.

Cope's software can certainly generate snippets of music that humans can perceive as imitations of identifiable composers.

A 10-second sample of Cope would probably fool most people. IMO a 100-second sample shouldn't fool anybody who listens seriously to music (let alone tries to compose it). Cope has worked out how to string notes together both on a small and a larger scale, but he hasn't worked out (yet) how to link the two or more) different time scales together.

So the result sounds like a bright student who has learned what "sonata form" is (assuming for the sake of argument that there is such a thing as "sonata form" - here be dragons!), and learned enough theory to construct plausible sounding 4-bar phrases, but doesn't yet have the faintest idea how to write a sonata (or a Chopin waltz, or a Bach invention, or whatever).

If somebody with the intellect of Chomsky ever gets interested in this and codifies how the small and large scales fit together (which, as with speech, many humans can do successfully without knowing how they do it) then a lot of hack composers and arrangers probably do need to start looking for other employment.

But since a good strategy for being a successful academic is to have one good idea and write 1000 different papers about it, I don't expect Cope to be the guy who cracks the next level of the problem - he's had enough ideas to fill up one comfortable academic career already ;-)

--
Rob

Sib 4.1, Win98SE, Athlon 3100, 512Mb, Audigy

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Gulic - 05 Oct 02:13AM (edited 06 Oct 04:10AM)
What can be expressed with words - also can be similarly spoken in the form of music.

The main point is - the most important in music is not how cool it is, but what a composer/musicians has to say to people.

What can say a computer to people, which could be useful/important for them if the best it can do is Mimicry (akin a human, but not even close)?

What is a computer vs. human capable of to invent if it does not have consciousness? It can say not more that is was programed. It means no matter how intelligent is the program - it will be always outdated vs. human intelligence.

Now about what a composer/musician can say to people:

1. How good is to be an aggressive, stupid and cruel bastard? Teaching people how to close the gap between the animal and human? (Love like a monkey is the best way to love on the Earth?)

By the way: wild animals do not eat junk food, do not use drugs, alcohol, tobacco,...; do not kill for fun..., etc.

or

2. Normal composers/musicians have to teach the human how to be a better human, who loves like a human (humanoid), not a predator; who is capable to resolve all problems/issues without violence and the like; ...?

Compare:
Unlike humanoids, the visible and invisible governments teach us that 9/11 was necessary because otherwise THEY would have no reasons to take over Afghanistan, Iraq, ... in order to achieve the surge in oil prices, ... and to accomplish THEIR dreams (not people's ones) faster - the NEW WORLD ORDER, which is high-tech slavery for humankind.

Watch for example:

SEPTEMBER CLUES part9:
http://www.livevideo.com/video/socialservice/A0A3B43776AF4D54B65789022CA10B31/september-clues-part9.aspx

NOSED OUT:
http://www.livevideo.com/video/socialservice/7441869F563747B3AF0D66273C8BAB7E/nosed-out.aspx

WALL STREET AND THE RISE OF HITLER
http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/


If we, the people, won't bring the alternative to the coming doomsday - we all will be doomed in a few years.

Do whatever you can do that makes people more CONSCIOUS, creative, ... and capable to withstand against THEM.

"...don't tell me there's no hope at all
Together we stand, divided we fall."
--Pink Floyd, Hey you (the Wall).

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Roman Molino Dunn - 05 Oct 08:31AM
Ian,
I am working on a plugin like that :) Unfortunately you can not use the ideas hub in a plugin, but instead I am using a folder of scores (acting as the material). What I have found as a more interesting exercise is randomly generating all of the material, theme included.
There is a plugin that comes with Sibelius 6 for proof reading first species counterpoint. Before I wrote that plugin I actually wrote one for composing counterpoint, but never released it since I am finishing all species before I do. If I could get the plugin to also randomly create the theme, it would actually be a fully functioning baroque composer, Nothing for Cope to sneeze at. Only danger would be that everyone using Sibelius would have access to it. But I thought I would let you know that your wishes for a plugin like that are well founded and will hopefully be fulfilled.
If you are interested, I also wrote a musical dice plugin that Sibelius put up a week ago. Not the Mozart game you are thinking of, but the dice it is based on also existed in his time.

--
Roman Molino Dunn
[email protected]
http://www.musictranscriber.xbuild.com
http://www.myspace.com/romanmolinodunn

MacbookPro 4g o-Ram, Leopard, Sibelius (always the latest version available), External Keypads (Apple and X-keys), External Screens (Samsung), M-Audio midi keyboard, M-Audio pedal, Pro Tools

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Smith - 05 Oct 09:52AM
I hear a whisper that a new auto-compose version of Sibelius is in preparation, which removes any need for human invervention. As usual, Daniel won't reveal the release date, but my sources suggest sometime around 1 April next year.

--
Peter Smith

Sib 6.1, Windows XP Pro SP2, Sibelius Gold, GPO, Athlon 64 Dual Core 2.4 Ghz, Audiophile 2496; 4Gb RAM

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Gulic - 06 Oct 06:17AM
It looks like I need to add more evidences that music can be used as a weapon and as the alternative to it, normal composers need to create more CONSCIOUS music to bring people into balance. Sorry, computers can't do this...

U.S. Military's Interrogation Music Revealed:
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/torture-tunes-u-s-militarys-interrogation-music-revealed

"The United States military is known to use various coercive and deplorable tactics for its interrogations, however, now its official 'torture soundtrack' has been revealed.

The military's playlists include everything from the thrashing shreds and yelps of AC/DC and Metallica to children's anthemic earworms from programs including Sesame Street and Barney.

What is this auditory torture called? Audioboarding?"

"Music has been used in American military prisons and on bases to induce sleep deprivation, "prolong capture shock," disorient detainees during interrogations-and also drown out screams. Based on a leaked interrogation log, news reports, and the accounts of soldiers and detainees, here are some of the songs that guards and interrogators chose.

Lots of heavy metal, rap, and patriotic songs -- plus a few oddball tracks such as the music from the Meow Mix commercial, and the theme from Sesame Street."

Read more:
Music as torture / Music as weapon
http://www.sibetrans.com/trans/trans10/cusick_eng.htm

I guess, now it's more understandable what I am talking about in this thread...

The only question is - do the majority composers know what CONSCIOUS music is?

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Jody Hughes - 06 Oct 08:37AM
Hi there

Perhaps you should start a new thread, as this doesn't seem to bear much relation to Peter Roos's original (light-hearted) posting.

Hope that helps

Jeremy
--
music editor/engraver
iMac Intel 2GHz 2GB | OS X Version 10.6.1 Snow Leopard | Sibelius 6.1
(It's 2009)

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Smith - 06 Oct 09:32AM

> I guess, now it's more understandable what I am talking about in this thread...
>

It isn't, but please don't bother explaining.

--
Peter Smith

Sib 6.1, Windows XP Pro SP2, Sibelius Gold, GPO, Athlon 64 Dual Core 2.4 Ghz, Audiophile 2496; 4Gb RAM

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 06 Oct 09:37PM
Peter wrote: Forget about Sibelius features, and wish lists - this is it! We'll be taken over by machines!

Right now I'm more worried that we'll be taken over by trolls...

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Gulic - 07 Oct 04:00AM (edited 07 Oct 04:23AM)
Stephen Wrigley wrote: "Right now I'm more worried that we'll be taken over by trolls..."
============================================================
Then please - do not take over yourself, Stephen, and you will be safe from trolls...

Tip for you, Stephen - if you have nothing intelligent to say, then say nothing... At least it will help you to look a human-alike specimen.

If you disagree with me, then please provide any CONSCIOUS, LOGICAL, ... arguments, facts against my points of view and we will compare who's who. Let me bey - you're incapable of doing so...

If you won't provide any CONSCIOUS/LOGICAL reasons, but will attack for no (human) reason - without facts, logical arguments and the like - it will mean that you completely agreed with all what I wrote here.

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Gulic - 07 Oct 03:43AM (edited 07 Oct 04:24AM)
Gulic wrote: "I guess, now it's more understandable what I am talking about in this thread..."

Peter Smith replied: "It isn't, but please don't bother explaining."
=======================================================
Peter, NOW it's so simple a caveman can understand it... It means that you, Peter, apparently a pre-Prehistoric man who is incapable to act upon reason...

Peter, do you know who, according to Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" and some scientists, are predecessors of Neanderthals? Are they evolved from African apes = talking monkeys?

That can explain why Peter Smith has no CONSCIOUS/logical arguments against me, but akin a pre-Prehistoric man repeats human words without any sense or understanding... = Peter Smith is talking just because he proud he can talk...

But please, Peter Smith, don't worry about it - it's typical for your species...

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 07 Oct 08:38AM
>Tip for you, Stephen - if you have nothing intelligent to say, then say nothing

Couldn't agree more!

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Smith - 07 Oct 05:17PM
Oh dear, I seem to have upset him!

--
Peter Smith

Sib 6.1, Windows XP Pro SP2, Sibelius Gold, GPO, Athlon 64 Dual Core 2.4 Ghz, Audiophile 2496; 4Gb RAM

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Roos - 08 Oct 12:15AM
> Oh dear, I seem to have upset him!
>
> --
> Peter Smith

DNFTT!

--
Peter Roos
www.summeroflovemusic.com

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Smith - 08 Oct 11:08AM

> DNFTT!
>
Suppose you're right, Peter, but it's hard to resist sometimes.


--
Peter Smith

Sib 6.1, Windows XP Pro SP2, Sibelius Gold, GPO, Athlon 64 Dual Core 2.4 Ghz, Audiophile 2496; 4Gb RAM

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Gulic - 08 Oct 04:38AM
Peter Smith wrote: "Oh dear, I seem to have upset him!"
=======================================================
Wow, now you, Peter, started experiencing hallucinations...

What else?

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA - 15 Oct 02:40PM
It’s a shame that Gulic uses such poor English and fails to edit his posts. That leaves us having to read words into his statements when he has left them out.

For instance, in the sixth post from the top he uses the words, “How good is to be an aggressive, stupid and cruel bastard?”

I feel the word “it” has been left out of that sentence.

There are at least two places where the word “it” can be added to make the sentence more grammatically correct. I, as the reader, have integrated all Gulic’s other statements and have determined where the “it” should be added. Since he makes other errors, I feel he must have added the question mark in error. I, therefore, obtain this sentence and fully agree with him/her.

How good it is to be an aggressive, stupid and cruel bastard.

I congratulate Gulic. He has made his point. Though he doesn’t use the language very well, I have been able to figure out what he meant. I now understand. I agree with him. He is an aggressive, stupid and cruel bastard.

But why did he have to advertise that fact here on this chatpage? Can he not find anyone in his personal life who knows that? He can’t be looking very far. Surely his attitude comes across when he meets people live, face to face.

I don’t understand why he calls himself a monkey though. Maybe he means he is an aggressive, stupid and cruel monkey.


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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Stephen Wrigley - 15 Oct 11:10PM
Top drawer!

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Peter Smith - 16 Oct 09:25AM
You'll be in trouble now, Terry!

Peter Roos is right really, you know.

--
Peter Smith

Sib 6.1, Windows XP Pro SP2, Sibelius Gold, GPO, Athlon 64 Dual Core 2.4 Ghz, Audiophile 2496; 4Gb RAM

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Phil Gaskill - 16 Oct 04:58PM
> Peter Roos is right really, you know. (DNFTT)

But, alternatively, there's "When life gives you trolls, make trollade." I think that's the philosophy Terry was following.

--
Phil Gaskill
Sib 6.1, PhotoScore 6.0.0, Dolet 3.4, year 2009
Mac Pro 2.66 (Intel), OSX 10.6.1, 4 GB RAM
also, on the same Mac: Win XP SP3, Sib 6.1, PhotoScore 6.0.0

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Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business!
Posted by Robert Enns - 16 Oct 09:09PM
And quite a tasty trollade it was. Tangy with an aftertaste of quince.

--
Rob
Windows XP, Sib 6.1, PhotoScore 6.0, GPO4, Sib Essentials

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Messages in this thread

Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Roos, 04 Oct 02:50AM
     Are we all going out of business? Not really... - Gulic, 04 Oct 04:42AM
         Re: Are we all going out of business? Not reall... - Peter Roos, 04 Oct 04:32PM
     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Ian Cugley, 04 Oct 11:37AM
         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Rob Tuley, 04 Oct 05:52PM
             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 05 Oct 02:13AM
                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Roman Molino Dunn, 05 Oct 08:31AM
                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 05 Oct 09:52AM
                         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 06 Oct 06:17AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Jody Hughes, 06 Oct 08:37AM
                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 06 Oct 09:32AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Stephen Wrigley, 06 Oct 09:37PM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 07 Oct 04:00AM
                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 07 Oct 03:43AM
                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Stephen Wrigley, 07 Oct 08:38AM
                                         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 07 Oct 05:17PM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Roos, 08 Oct 12:15AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 08 Oct 11:08AM
                                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Gulic, 08 Oct 04:38AM
                                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Terry Carter, Rural Michigan USA, 15 Oct 02:40PM
                                                     Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Stephen Wrigley, 15 Oct 11:10PM
                                                         Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Peter Smith, 16 Oct 09:25AM
                                                             Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Phil Gaskill, 16 Oct 04:58PM
                                                                 Re: Sib. 6.1: We are all going out of business! - Robert Enns, 16 Oct 09:09PM